Not so long ago, I would’ve just kept my mouth shut.

Particularly since all of the people involved in this piece of nonsense are church friends of my parents. Look how far a few “You are a wonderful person. Keep sharing your opinion!”s have pushed me! Actually it’s quite nice to finally speak a bit of my mind on Facebook. One of my post-Nicaragua goals, as you’ll be able to read about in my journals (which I’m posting soon).

In the following exchange (which will probably get longer tomorrow..ha), I’ve dropped last names to protect the individuals’ privacy and retained first names to distinguish the commenters involved. I’ve left all comments completely unedited and uncut. Enjoy!

(Initial post) Chris: OUTRAGE! [along with this, “President Backs Ground Zero Mosque,” courtesy of Fox News, yeah]

Chris: …but no surprise.

Buddy: President Obama’s actions show a complete disrespect toward the families of three thousand victims that died at Ground Zero. Shame on him!

Donna: We saw it coming and yet we are so unable to do anything but watch the take over of our country. If we protest, then they will take the Baptist rights to building their place of worship according to what the people want. It would be stifling our rights also. So what do we do?

Buddy: This is not about the right to worship. It’s about protecting our country from a riligous fanatic that wants to distroy our country. By building this mosque it would encourage further actions toward us from muslum terrorist. It’s also about the three thousaand that died at the hand of these muslum terrorist, respecting the victims and thier families.

Ree: We’ve got to vote very carefully this election, write/email our representatives because it does make a difference (learned a couple of weeks ago that many ask ‘how many emails/calls/letters did we get on this’ before they vote on something)…find our voices…it’s past time…

Wes: There are currently over 20 mosques already in New York City. So why does another one have to be there? Again, not about religious freedom.

Juletta: Well Donna, we stop thinking like that…that is why we Christians are in the position we are in. It is time to take a stand and return our country to the people. Patch the screen doors and find our voices!!!!

Steve: Since when does Obama care about what the constitution says? We are under attack from an enemy within. You all should watch this movie, it will open your eyes to who Obama really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

Chris: Dude, I had no idea there are videos this long on youtube! I don’t have time to watch it now, but just watching the first 5 minutes has be really anxious to watch the whole thing!

Me [Talia]: a) It’s not “a mosque.” It’s a community center that will have many features..among them, a swimming pool, an auditorium, and a mosque. b) It won’t be at Ground Zero. It will be two blocks north of Ground Zero. If this is the “Ground Zero mosque,” then shouldn’t every other building in the vicinity be judged the same way? The Ground Zero hair salon. The Ground Zero post office. The Ground Zero Baptist church. c) It’s not a monument to violence, and saying it is is attacking the vast majority of Muslims who are peaceful along with the few who are fanatical and violent.

Sandra: He didn’t exactly back it, he just said they could put one there. We are the land of the free, right? everyone equal? Do we automatically eye every Muslim with suspicion and distrust? How many horrendous crimes have been committed by Caucasians? I know it is a sensitive topic, but not everything is Obama’s fault!

Steve: USA is under attack of radical Islamist. They will stop at nothing to further their radical beliefs, including cutting you and your children’s heads off. Their goal is to demoralize and covert our nation by force to Islam. I believe they have an Ali in the White House. They are using our wonderful constitution against us. We need to look at these actions as a act of war!

Buddy: Talia is right . It isn’t at ground zero and it is a community center. However, we need to take a look at the man behind it all. A rdical, Christian and Untided States hating rdical on a mission to destroy this country. As for the “community Center” it is simply a tool used to introduce people to his views and build a stornger radical muslem following. I’m not fooled!

Me: Who is this mysterious man you keep referring to as being “behind it all”? The President? He’s Christian and it’s not his community center. Or Feisal Abdul-Rauf, the imam who’s actually planning the community center? He’s publicly condemned the 9/11 attacks and Osama bin Laden. Neither of these men qualify as radical Muslims. So should we just stop letting Muslims build anything? Should we round them up and kick them out of the US? Just how far do you think we should go to ensure that Muslims feel Christian hostility? I also feel like I should mention that Islam was actually introduced to the US with the slave trade and has been as foundational here as Christianity.

Chris: Couldn’t have said it better: http://questionablemotives.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/whats-wrong-with-building-a-mosque-near-ground-zero/

Me: How do you feel about the name of the organization Campus Crusade for Christ? Just wonderin’.

Steve: Obama a Christian? You might want to research that one. You know he hasn’t attended church since becoming president. The church he did attend is very questionable. Reverend Jeremiah Wright his pastor of over 20 years say “god F*** America” not God Bless America. He was educated in Muslim schools and goes around the world telling counties we’re not a Christian nation. He’s the first president to not observe the National Day of Prayer. These don’t seem like Christian actions regardless of is words. I don’t think Obama is a Muslim or a Christian. I think he worships and serves himself and is ideology.

Buddy: Campus Crusade for Christ promotes Christianity and tells folks about the freedom found in a life in Christ. Islam has a hatered for any other faith than thier own and calls Christians infidell dogs. Tell me how Islam is a peacfull religon. You as a woman would be considered property with very few if any rights.

Me: ‎[Re: Steve] A person’s church attendance is not an indicator of their Christianity or their religious beliefs, and what Wright ACTUALLY said was “God damn America.” We’re a nation of many peoples, and with that comes being a nation of many religions and belief systems. As long as the First Amendment’s in place, we won’t be a “Christian nation.”

Me: [Re: Buddy] The link Chris just posted was criticizing the community center for its proposed name, because “Cordoba” can be linked to a time of Islamic dominance. By that standard, the “Crusade” in CCC should be seen as a declaration of Christian force and a promotion of violence in the name of Jesus. I think we all know that’s not what Campus Crusade for Christ actually is, but when you look at the language they’re using, that’s the image they project. I see the same hostility in Christianity toward other religions, particularly toward Islam, so I don’t see much difference there. Within most branches of Christianity, I as a woman am still seen as inferior to men and a second-class human. I believe that’s wrong, no matter what religion you practice.

Steve: So your only argument to all my Illustrations of Obama’s unchristian like actions is, church attendance isn’t an indicator on Christianity? What does being able to be whatever religion you want having anything to do with Obama being Christian or not? You said he was a Christian. I pray for this county daily and I wish Obama was a Christian.

Me: No. I just disagree with you that these actions are necessarily “unChristian” and that they void Mr. Obama’s declaration of personal Christianity. You said one reason you know he’s not a Christian is that he’s denied the US is a Christian nation; I think that’s ridiculous.

Steve: I would suggest you do some in-depth research on Obama and his background. I posted a link above to a great informative movie.

Me: It’s okay, I have and will continue to do so. I make it a point to research everything. Thanks for the concern. ;]

Steve: Video of Obama Admitting he is a Muslim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY&feature=player_embedded#!

Amy: Matthew 17:20 says that we should be able to recognize a Christ-follower by his/her fruit…so being involved in a body of believers is just one type of fruit that should be evident in our lives. I don’t know how or when you have seen mass killing from those who are Christ followers, but if you have, they are not getting that from OUR standard (the Bible).

Me: Jesus’s standard is obviously love, I agree, but there’s plenty of violence in the Bible that Christian extremists have drawn inspiration from. To say that Islam is a violent religion because the Qur’an contains injunctions to kill infidels but that Christianity isn’t a violent religion, despite the violence contained and often sanctioned in the Bible, is a double standard in my opinion.

Buddy: Tara, this is an example of why I take a stand against Islam: Ladies, here is how Islam treats it’s women. This is what Sharia Law can BENEFIT you. Oh, and this was just for not dressing like someone thought you should. Imagine what happens if you actually want to speak? Or, they may just want to marry off your 6 to 9 year old Daughters. Remember, Islam is a peaceful Religion. They just want to fit in, RIGHT. When was the last time you saw a woman beaten like that by the Church you go to? Just something to ponder.
74 lashes for women who are “un-Islamically” dressed | Planet-Iran.com

Me: Of course I’m against this kind of treatment of women, but I’m against it in every religion. Because it does exist in most religions. There are some fundamentalist branches of Christianity who advocate horrible treatment of women, and even many of the more moderate denominations are still oppressive..they just wrap it up in a prettier package. And who’s arguing for Sharia law in the US?

Buddy: And who’s arguing for Sharia law in the US? Your favorite Imam, that’s who!

Me: I don’t have a favorite imam. I just think it’s ridiculous to suggest that we can and should stop people from building a community center on private property. That’s what this whole thing is about in the first place.

Buddy: You see a community center, I see a recruiting center for radical Islamist.

Me: Guess we better shut down the Westboro Baptist Church then.

Buddy: I don’t have a problem with thqt either. That place is anything but Christ like.

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2 Responses to “Not so long ago, I would’ve just kept my mouth shut.”

  1. Crystal Says:

    First of all wow! I can’t even believe that people are as ignorent as this. I mean sure I know there are ignorent people out there but these people sound off their rocker. (I was brought up in the Bible Belt of Canada, so I feel as though I have seen it all.)

    I think all of this Obama talk is crazy, do people not realize that Bush made such a mess with the country in the 8 years he was in office even though he may be a christian? Do they understand that an 8 year mess can not be cleaned up in a day or even 8 years? Do they understand that the governement knew about 9/11 (maybe even planned it themselves) but yet did nothing to stop it even though the National Gaurd has had drills for if this exact thing would happen?
    I think that some of these people need to get their facts from somewhere other then the Bible or their church and maybe just have FACTS not scripture.

    Great video to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_XyTeNA1g&feature=related

    Sorry this might be a little bit of a tangent but I think the only way that we as society can make any change is to see things for how they are and not the smoke screen the government and media want use to see it through.

    Super great post by the way.
    Crystal

    • talialovesyou Says:

      I just read an extremely interesting article yesterday linking childhood intelligence levels to the political views we hold as adults. (Although I’m not as convinced as the OP is that liberals control the media, since many avenues of the media seem to bend over backwards to pander to conservatives.) I want to find more information on this subject, and I want to see some comparative stats on the link between levels of adult intelligence and political views. I do know some smart conservatives, but for the most part they are (to varying degrees) very suspicious of intellectualism and education not preached from the pulpit, and regard actual facts on a lot of subjects (economics, Obama’s ethnic heritage and religious identity, abortion, science, poverty, white privilege…) as threatening. And I definitely don’t mean this in a mean way; many people I know and love (probably most of them) are conservative.

      Anyway! Thanks for your support and the link–I’m about to head out the door but I’ll put it in my queue to watch :) AND I’ve been browsing your blog and it’s really very lovely. <3

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